Posts by Doubting Bro

57

To all lurking JW elders

by Mickey mouse in

jw
friends

come on in, the water's fine.

you may even realise you have close friends and family here.

.

Doubting Bro

curiousconfused - Welcome to the board. Look forward to your contributions.

I do understand what you're refering to when you talk about the psudo-association that comes from constantly discussing things JW when you've left. As I'm sure you know, there are those that are JW only to keep up family ties and appearances. Even some that are serving in some appointed capacity that either don't believe at all or have serious doctrinal/organizational issues. So, those folks (I'm including myself as one who attends for family reasons but doesn't think the WTS is Gods chosen organization) will critique the literature here since they're not able to do so with loved ones or others in their congregation. Or at least that's my motivation and I'm assuming others feel the same way.

As for those that have either faded or have da'ed or been df'ed, I think the shunning practice is probably why they can't just let it go. I think there are a large number of exJws that don't come to these boards or don't necessarily focus on the literature. They're done and that's that. But, the pain caused by shunning is so great that some feel the need to help others see the same way they do and leave. Honestly, communities that practice shunning (mormons and scientology are 2 examples) tend to have more vocal ex members as opposed to say Baptists.

Anyway, I think your prospective is valuable and hope that you'll stay.

24

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."- Michael Corleone in Godfather III. Sorta reminds me of my life.

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

most of you recognize that line from the godfather iii, which wasn't the greatest film in my opinion, but that line was classic.

it perfectly depicts my life as it stands now.

i'm at a crossroads in life, and my heart is being tugged in different directions.

Doubting Bro

Enjoyed reading the first part of "your story". I agree with you that the vast majority of JW youth are living a double life. Being a teenager is hard enough without having to live up to almost unatainable expectations many JW parents place on their kids. In addition, sticking out like a sore thumb during the period most people want to fit in most almost forces you to do the double life thing.

Look forward to hearing the rest.

113

WTBTS Elder & Ministerial Servant Problems

by JW GoneBad in

i attended a recent ministerial servant k m school on the east coast and the main school instructor mentioned among other things (part entitled: 'objective of the km school course') that the total number of ministerial servants is seriously less than it should be.

in times past the ratio of m ss to elders was much more than it is today.. in the u.s. apparently the total number of elders is 88,500+ as opposed to m ss 65,000. the numbers show & numbers don't lie: the society is running out of spiritual men.

the instructor stated that this is a new downward trend that has (in so many words) the society worried.. the next speaker (part entitled: 'why we must be spiritual men') added that in his years as a traveling servant the pool of m ss has always been much, much larger than it is today.

Doubting Bro

Speaking of merging congregations, has anyone noticed a trend to build 2 auditoriums on one site (zoning permitting). I've heard them refered to as "double halls". I could see that as a way to deal with declining numbers. Move 4 congregations into a complex. Sell off 4 separate KHs and use that cash to build the new building with money left over to "donate" to the WWW. Then, if numbers decline you could merge 2 together in that complex without anyone really seeing any difference since you'd be going to the same building. Do that, you'd also open up room to move another congregation into the complex.

I do know that this merging/disbanding has become common enough, at least among the English halls, that when it happens people seem to just shrug it off. But psychologically it's taking its toll and is a major point of discouragement. The last time I saw a new English congregation form in this area (a growing area by the way) was over 15 years ago!! I've seen several non-English but no English.

113

WTBTS Elder & Ministerial Servant Problems

by JW GoneBad in

i attended a recent ministerial servant k m school on the east coast and the main school instructor mentioned among other things (part entitled: 'objective of the km school course') that the total number of ministerial servants is seriously less than it should be.

in times past the ratio of m ss to elders was much more than it is today.. in the u.s. apparently the total number of elders is 88,500+ as opposed to m ss 65,000. the numbers show & numbers don't lie: the society is running out of spiritual men.

the instructor stated that this is a new downward trend that has (in so many words) the society worried.. the next speaker (part entitled: 'why we must be spiritual men') added that in his years as a traveling servant the pool of m ss has always been much, much larger than it is today.

Doubting Bro

oh, sorry. They eliminated a local congregation and reassigned members to existing congregations (2 I believe). The congregation I attend picked up several territories and a few publishers (no elders, ms or pioneers). I think the attendance had dropped to below 50 and they only had a couple of elders/ms. There's a rumor that another congregation is going to meet the same fate based on the number of folks attending. Maybe disbanded is the term that they're using?

113

WTBTS Elder & Ministerial Servant Problems

by JW GoneBad in

i attended a recent ministerial servant k m school on the east coast and the main school instructor mentioned among other things (part entitled: 'objective of the km school course') that the total number of ministerial servants is seriously less than it should be.

in times past the ratio of m ss to elders was much more than it is today.. in the u.s. apparently the total number of elders is 88,500+ as opposed to m ss 65,000. the numbers show & numbers don't lie: the society is running out of spiritual men.

the instructor stated that this is a new downward trend that has (in so many words) the society worried.. the next speaker (part entitled: 'why we must be spiritual men') added that in his years as a traveling servant the pool of m ss has always been much, much larger than it is today.

Doubting Bro

The congregation I attend has the following:

Elders - 8 in total broken down by age:

Over 80 - 1

70-80 - 1

60-70 - 1

50-60 - 3

40-50 - 0

30-40 - 2

MS - 7 broken down by age:

over 80 - 0

70-80 - 1 (will never be an elder)

60-70 - 1 (will never be an elder)

50-60 - 2 (both are ex-elders - likely be promoted in 3-5 years)

40-50 - 1 (outside chance)

30-40-1 (good chance of being promoted)

20-30 - 2 (1 has a good chance of being an elder by 30 the other is a slacker that does just enough to stay a ms)

Ex-elders who make little to no effort - 8 with all of them over 40. I'm actually the only one under 50 so there's no way any of these guys are going to "serve" again.

Potential MS - 2 (one of which is around 20 and the other is in his 30s having been a ms before)

Oh, this congo is considered to be one of the stronger in the circuit. Many others have about 5 elders and 1 or 2 ms. We had 1 congo contracted and there will likely be another one in the near future.

I haven't gotten the stats yet from the KM school locally but will post them as soon as I get them.

59

Elder wants to do "other activities" with me

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

i'm fully aware that this is a cult, and i was waiting for the social elements to kick in.

so far, i have just been doing the "bible study," discussing doctrine, etc.

however, recently one of the elders said he wants to get together with me to do other activities.

Doubting Bro

InterestedOne - Thanks for the background. Seriously, you should drop the romance before you get to invested. She will always chose the cult over you and you won't wake her up. Sorry to be so blunt but it is what it is. If you get involved deeper, it will just bring you heartache.

Take it from a born in ex-elder, I've seen too many people torned to shreds by the religion. Run while you still can.

113

WTBTS Elder & Ministerial Servant Problems

by JW GoneBad in

i attended a recent ministerial servant k m school on the east coast and the main school instructor mentioned among other things (part entitled: 'objective of the km school course') that the total number of ministerial servants is seriously less than it should be.

in times past the ratio of m ss to elders was much more than it is today.. in the u.s. apparently the total number of elders is 88,500+ as opposed to m ss 65,000. the numbers show & numbers don't lie: the society is running out of spiritual men.

the instructor stated that this is a new downward trend that has (in so many words) the society worried.. the next speaker (part entitled: 'why we must be spiritual men') added that in his years as a traveling servant the pool of m ss has always been much, much larger than it is today.

Doubting Bro

It's been a problem for awhile and its only getting worse for them. Either they delete people for stuff that's stupid (going to college) or they burn them out. What's left are mostly power hungery self righteous company men.

13

For Wobble and other Real Ale Drinkers - 8.5% of Malty Goodness Meoww

by cantleave in

jw
friends

.

Doubting Bro

I haven't tried Old Tom but it looks fantastic. I've been to the UK a few times and love being able to get good beer pretty much everywhere. We have tons of good beer here in the US (at least in many parts) but tons of bad beer too. You have to know where you're going to get a decent pint.

64

With the latest Australian Special Talk, we now have a complete picture of the Organizational Plan

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

per this australian talk, found here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/203281/1/latest-special-talk-in-australia id say we have now seen the future........ ah yes........the governing body is now starting to show their hand, to begin to show their future plans for this false-religion-cult of fear and oppression.

it has been said on here for the last few years now, that with the elimination/combination of the book study at the kingdom halls instead of at homes, the introduction of new rule books (keep yourself in god's love) and the new elder manual that a "tightening of the reigns" was beginning.

and so, just as the members of jwd and the internet have written, so it shall be done by the governing body overlords.

Doubting Bro

cattails - I don't doubt for a minute that's what the CO said however it seems to contradict what the WTS has put in writing (not that it's so unusual). We don't have a list of publishers who are associated with various service groups posted where I attend, so I won't be able to check it here to see if it's a new directive or something this CO is doing on his own. Actually now that I think of it, the last 3 congregations I've attended also didn't have a list of service groups on the "information board".

Thanks for the information. I wonder though if that means the inactive person is actually not assigned to the service group or if they are but just not listed as a publisher in the service group. That would mean technically they wouldn't have to change the direction that I quoted yet could still inform the rest of the congregation who is inactive and who is not. Most are aware anyway.

I still don't think they're going to implement institutionalized shunning for inactive the way that it's done for DA or DF but rather leave it the way it is which means zealous JWs typically avoid socializing with fringe JWs.

Guess we'll have to wait and see.

64

With the latest Australian Special Talk, we now have a complete picture of the Organizational Plan

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

per this australian talk, found here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/203281/1/latest-special-talk-in-australia id say we have now seen the future........ ah yes........the governing body is now starting to show their hand, to begin to show their future plans for this false-religion-cult of fear and oppression.

it has been said on here for the last few years now, that with the elimination/combination of the book study at the kingdom halls instead of at homes, the introduction of new rule books (keep yourself in god's love) and the new elder manual that a "tightening of the reigns" was beginning.

and so, just as the members of jwd and the internet have written, so it shall be done by the governing body overlords.

Doubting Bro

I don't see anything different in that talk. On the other thread, references were given that show the WTS believes that in order to live up to your dedication (to the WTS) that one must engage in the public "preaching" work. If you're inactive right now, you likely have no "privileges" with the exception of commenting. I've seen inactive ones or ones who rarely make any meetings being removed from the TMS without being told although that's probably not WTS procedure. As others have mentioned, I've also see inactive folks labeled as bad association and avoided at least on a social basis. Not shunning but probably more in line with how Paul wanted df'ing to be practiced. Marked if you will but without the official marking talk.

If the question is whether GB 2.0 will be more hard-lined, I think we'd really have to wait and see if they decide to appoint any additional members and who those members are. Also key would be whether the hard core guys such as Losch emerge as the new "boss".

I think it could easily go to a much more hardcore stance about certain things as GB 2.0 wishes to get back to their roots or go back to the good old days when JWs were fully engaged. I can see them thinking that's the answer. The other option would be to go a little more mainstream which has been discussed at length.

But in terms of considering one DA'ed because they're inactive, it really seems counterproductive and unnecessary. These folks are already treated poorly without official sanctions. So, what advantage would it be to place sanctions on these people?

By the way, if a person hits inactive status, per the "Shepherd the Flock of God" book, page 52, paragraphs 16 & 17, a short time inactive person (short time not defined but likely less than a year) may be assigned to work with an "experienced publisher" and reactivated without the Service Committee assigning a person to study with that person. A long time inactive person (not defined) will need to go through a process similar to what a person who is a first time publisher i.e. does the person meet the requirements set forth in the Organized to Do Jehovah's Will book, pags 79-81. And, someone would probably study with them (and get to count the time, yeah!)

Now why would the WTS publish 2 pages of information in their brand new elders book that reinforces the standing procedure (page 50, paragraph 12) that states an inactive person should be assigned to a service group (change in terminology from book study group) only to scrap it before many elders have even seen the book or been through the KM school? It just doesn't make sense.